S01 E01: Make Way for the New Age HR

With things going online and remote, life has tossed a curveball that turned into something new — eCulture. The online culture has transformed from being just webinars — now we have online dinner parties, online art workshops, online gym workouts, and so much more.

This growing eCulture trend has brought forth changes not only in our personal lives but also in industries at large. At CultureMoney, we have always been champions of remote work and online culture. With COVID-19 changing the entire scene, we decided to move our get-togethers online and thus started Culture Club.

In Season 1 of Culture Club, India’s leading HR professionals try to understand and exemplify the changing scenario not just at the workplace but in life at large. We have Dr. Pawan Alamchandani, as our first guest with Ketan Krishna (Head of People Operations, Rentomojo) as the host, and Senthil Kumar. M (Founder & CEO, CultureMonkey) as the moderator.

Dr. Pawan is the Head of Human Resources at Vinculum Solutions Limited and also an edu sculptor at MICCA. From winning the hearts of his colleagues to being awarded the World HRD Congress twice, Dr. Pawan got the essence of HR right — it’s more than just recruiting employees and organizing workplace activities.

In this episode of Culture Club, Dr. Pawan talks about the need for HR professionals to evolve and adapt to the changing scenario. He emphasizes that HR professionals now need to adopt a techno-behavioral business role and also understand that eCulture is here to stay.

This change will lead to an amalgamation of workplace culture and create a unique office culture. He notes that the new norms of the HR fraternity must come up if the challenges of remote working are to be successfully adopted and implemented.

Watch the podcast to listen to the conversation between Dr. Pawan, Ketan, and Senthil.

Transcript

Senthil [00:00:27] Let's do this with an action? OK. All right. So this is Senthil. I'm the founder and CEO of CultureMonkey. So at CultureMonkey, we have built an employee engagement platform where you can measure your employee engagement across fifteen organizational drivers. The inception Point for all the reports that you get at CultureMonkey is through anonymous surveys. Right. So our vision is to make every employee happy.

So as a part of our community, we have come up with this initiative called Culture Club. So a culture club is a club of influential HRs in India and the members of the club will deliver, will talk about, will engage, and will connect and collaborate to bring out the most valuable things, that's apt and relevant for this situation, in terms of managing people. So as a part of our Culture Club, we are bringing this first season where we interview. We had planned to interview fifteen HRs and this is the first episode and we have Dr. Pawan joining us today. And he'll be the guest and Ketan will be the host. And we have planned out this episode very well and Ketan will run this. Yeah. I am really excited to move forward to the next section, Ketan.

Ketan [00:02:05] Thank you. Thank you. Senthil. Welcome, Pawan. And so a bit about me, For people from viewers. My name is Ketan, I Head HR for a startup called Rentomojo. I'm an HR Practitioner. I am an author. I'm a coach. And I'm a speaker. I believe in the power of transformation. And in fact, I talk about how I and Pawan got connected to something. A conversation about that. So the special person that we have today is Dr. Pawan, he heads HR for an organization called Vinculum Solutions and he has grown up the ranks there. So he started, if I understand correctly, he started as a senior management trainee in eight and a half years.

He's now heading the entire function for the organization, which has grown over time, but both in terms of people, practices, culture, and as a business altogether. Pawan is also a postgraduate for In Human Resources from SIIP. And this was after his B.tech from Nirma institute. So he's an engineer who turned an HR professional. And then, later on, he went ahead to do his PTSD from the Gujrat technical university, human resources. So that's Dr. Pawan Alamchandani for us. Pawan, thank you so much for joining in. It's a pleasure to host you here.

Ketan [00:03:28] When Senthil reached out to me and said that we need to speak to a few people who will drive the future. Would right now impact the way HR is run in this country, in India, and the people who would drive this forward. And I could immediately remember you Pawan because of a very interesting conversation sometime back. So thank you so much. Welcome, come again and jump. That's the idea.

Dr. Pawan [00:03:56] Thank you so much Senthil and Ketan for having me go on this conversation on Culture Club. Thanks again. So kind of we'll get them to think of me. You know, when this came across to you being an HR professional, we share a common vibe. So I'm with I feel that people are, you know, in HR typically have something in common and this common vibe that, you know, benefits. But it's on its own. Right. Thank you again. Thanks, Senthil, thanks Ketan. Look forward.

Ketan [00:04:30] All right, good. So we call this series the Culture Club and it is an initiative taken by CultureMonkey. And why am I here? A lot of people would ask questions. So I do work very closely with CultureMonkey out of passion. This is that because I think the product and the solution that they're bringing in is absolutely stunning. When I first got used to it as a customer, I loved every bit of it. And because I've worked on various engagement parts, this apparently to me seemed like something that was a vacuum for a very, very long time. A lot of companies came in, but I definitely like what CultureMonkey helped Rentomojo. And my personal belief in the product was there's longevity that we have to go. And in fact, when Senthil came up with this idea that why don't we reach out to people because one of the core beliefs that they've been getting is about listening.

Now, when you listen to your employees, you also need to listen to your customers and people who are going to have to drive engagement for the future. So a lot of the brilliant ideas Senthil, I'm sure this is going to help us preach to a larger population, help us drive point of view and agenda because engagement is going to be super crucial, culture has always been very, very crucial. Now, with COVID what we're anticipating is going to be different. We have a few questions for you Pawan, I am sure that the world would enjoy the conversations that we have with you. I know also there's also a quick, very interesting rapid-fire round towards the end. And I'm sure you're gonna love it here.

Dr. Pawan [00:06:05] All right. Yeah, just giving a bit of a brief intro before we begin. So, I work with Vinculum, I mean, you know, it's a Saas based company, you know, providing an e-commerce platform to the sellers brand. It's to get those integrations two separate marketplaces, which means that anyone who wants to sell online can get on board and start selling. Now, this you know this fits, it's because, as you mentioned after my B.tech, I also had put down for working with Oracle that went for two years. So there's some tech background in this HR so that this can help me. We're on top of it. Feel free to shoot.

Ketan [00:07:03] All right, so the first question that we're going to throw to you is -  what challenges would CXO's have to deal with post COVID when it comes to the culture? With the world going remote? With the workplaces going remote. What do you think? What are the challenges that the CXOs are going to face in the new normal?

Dr. Pawan [00:07:25] So when we talk about culture, I think of culture, it has a lot of all the visuals, though, the visuals, the artifacts, you know, the signage, the body language, the way people behave, the value system of the organization. So now, with everything almost the better part of the organization going remote. I think a lot of that, you know, I know will not be available to people. So what then, that means is that a lot of it will go online. Right. So, you know, E-culture will be the talk of the town. So, we will see that, you know since there are people who are working remotely. As they are already believing and saying that they do know that there will be as many offices as well as the number of people. Right.

So we'll be having so many singular officers that we see. And what I believe is there, that there has been an amalgamation of cultural factors, which means that anybody who joins in will contribute to the cultural nuances. Now, the challenge that that would bring will be the consistency of cultural norms.

Dr. Pawan [00:08:43] So what I mean by the consistency of cultural norms is, you know, when anyone is in a physical setup, you have certain nuances that are put across to you. But when you're, you know, a new joiner and we cannot consider the office physically, for example, and you are there at their home and working remotely, although all of those would not be available to you or would not face those aspects of culture. So what that means is, you know, having a talent around consistent messaging often turns on, whether that is consistent or not. Because, what if that is not done properly, what it can lead to is you know, if you have three hundred people, you may end up having failed at different cultures, OK? And that then you know for an organization may not be viable for its success and may not be conducive to the overall success of the organization and the vision of the founders. So that is one of the biggest challenges that I see.

Dr. Pawan [00:09:49] And what you will also see is, we'll see hierarchy and hierarchy or, you know, kind of meeting at the commonplace. What I mean by that. wirearchy is, you know, bottom-up and the hierarchy is top-down. Now, culture typically, to a large extent, is top-down. But here what we will see is also a bottom-up wirearchy. People joining in. They also add the cultural nuances, look at the practices around people and that pretty translates to a common way I would say it. And, you know, both of these emerge and a newer way would evolve. And as I said, that's the consistent intensity of the cultural norms on this is going to be a challenge for the people and for the HR folks.

Ketan [00:10:43] Is that a conversation that has already begun among CXOs, your business leads, and function leads? I do sense that they have started understanding what it means. Why as an HR person for me and for you. This is the first one that came across. But for business to be aware and understand, I think it takes time. But how do you sense this conversation of this part coming in the minds of CXOs as you speak? I did. Realizing how challenging this possibly can get?

Dr. Pawan [00:11:14] Definitely. So I think it kind of has, you know, in this thought process, although It took a good amount of time for everyone to realize that it is easier said than done. This means that, since we were under lockdown, working from home, or working remotely for the past two months, two and a half months now. It didn't strike early, though, which means that it was very difficult. There would be remote work for a duration of 15 days or a month then, but then it has kind of become the norm, I would say.

And that has brought the CXOs thoughts of thinking as to how they maintain this form of decorum or formal definition of culture. Right. Because founders definitely have an idea around what kind of culture they wish to have for their organization. Right. And it is easier in an office setup where you have all of the people around you. But when you have so many remote people, you know, I think that is definitely what many CXOs think. And as a part of that requires, I would say a great amount of discipline to kind of get that going. And first of all, understanding, having cognizance, recognizing that, and then taking appropriate steps towards ensuring that you don't get lost, not lost.

Dr. Pawan [00:12:46] OK. So that definitely has got toCXOs I was thinking and it would be daily scrum, it would be webinars, open houses with the employees on an ongoing basis of that. That has definitely, that is a sign that the CXOs obviously are seeing that there is a challenge here when it comes to keeping this consistent.

Ketan [00:13:16] Would you be comfortable sharing a few unique practices on new practices that you guys did there at your organization that created help you move ahead? I know there's no such perfect solution now grappling with, but I'm sure you all have tried something with some success. So would you want to talk about a few things? Well, because communication is super important, as you said, and this concept of top-down and bottom-up was brilliant. That's a lot of fresh perspective to the entire thinking. But do you want to talk about a few things that you guys did add to an element of indecision?

Dr. Pawan [00:13:54] I think we were, first of all, thanks to our CEO Mr. Venkat. Ketan to be very honest we are proactive in this. So even before the lockdown began, we were already working from home. So it was two weeks before the PM announced the lockdown. We were actually working from home. So what that meant was, you know, what we did was we did a two-days trial first, you know, having employees work from home. And, if this is what was working. Once that was okay, we kind of, you know, reached out to all the view heads and then spoke to them, got feedback and then we went for a two weeks kind of thing.

So we did for two weeks. And then we ensured that there were regular scrums that were happening, which means we said that, you know, morning, everybody speaks to their team, evening again, they have a catch-up phone call. Now, we also ensured that this doesn't become only work-related, which means we encourage all coffee sessions, we were considerate about their mental belt of mind, we also add on top we played online, I'm not sure that is very common, but we played on.

Ketan [00:15:22] Who won is the question?

Dr. Pawan [00:15:27] Hahahaha. So there were plans appropriately laid out. like, who to reach out to all of those things. But what I believe truly is we had. Communications over email. We have communication over webinars. We also like to have an all-encompassing outlook for this. So it could be sections on mindfulness. It could be on top. As I said, it would be the plank challenge. On the health aspect of it, though. So all of that, you know, in a way. once we set out the clear message that we get. OK. So first of all, I'm going work from home. We care for you because we were proactive. Second, we are doing these things to ensure that you are good, you are taken care of. You know, we care for you. So between there are people who were away from their hometowns, away from their families.

Dr. Pawan [00:16:36] We are doing regular catch-up calls with them at a session, a very informal session to get them there. And we would say that, okay let's meet your family. So you wouldn't have minded a family with that. You know you have. Oh, hi. This is my daughter. This is my son. This is my house. This is where I work. You know, that gives me a view of the room that I took to my work station. This sign of. They realize that that's not before I ever have been. They'd never done this before. And this is also humane. OK. This is also, naturally, they realize that we are working up in our home. And these are all real human beings who, you know, who have a family just like ours. Who has differences just like us, why not just have a look at who they are, you know, who they have in their family? So that kind of also got the ball rolling and that's kind of moved on very, very far from there. So, in fact, I told you the other day that, you know, work from home has worked well for us and I'm not looking to get back to the office very soon.

Ketan [00:17:44] Sure, In fact, I'm mean, the good stuff. You're focusing a lot on communication connect, employee connect, and it's about a genuine approach to do we care? I think when you do something from your heart, people do understand and realize that. Thank you so much for sharing.

Ketan [00:18:02] This brings me to the secured question. So every difficult time has a silver lining. Now, with this COVID, what do you think? Oh, what positive change do you think it has already done? It can actually bring to the CXOs on how they see culture or how they view the entire matter of culture. I know bits and pieces of this. You've covered before this one. But this is kind of specific. What silver lining do you see in and around conversation related to culture in the boardroom, or the CXOs, or with the leadership?

Dr. Pawan [00:18:40] It is one of the biggest things that, you know, I have seen. In fact, we have seen. We often tend not to discuss this, but we have seen that in office, politics has gone down big time. It is no time. More politics. A great point in all this gossip has gone down. That is a big, big deal. That's right. And we see the newer ways of communication have emerged and newer ways of interaction have emerged. We are, in fact, conversing with people, interacting with people more than ever. So that is one of the very positive signs that we have seen. And. New ways of working and have emerged within. To be honest, some things used to be Ad-hoc. OK. But now they are super planned because everything that we do is on the calendar. If it is not on my calendar means it does not fit. OK. And just to ensure that we have the workplace balance part of it also. So we kind of fixed the time across the organization, which means 1:15 - 2:30 are your lunch hours.

Everybody across the organization. So everybody knows and realizes that the meetings should not be planned during that time. Of course, it would be. So everybody knows that you are working from, say, 9:30 to 7:30 or whatever. And these are the, you know, of local time. That means, you know, you can't hinder the person's private life during those hours. So we did that for our employees across and what that has helped us with again, the silver lining part is, earlier our employees who used to be on lunch from 1-3, and it wasn't compatible for us to arrange meetings. So, those kinds of things we have kind of avoided now.

Dr. Pawan [00:21:16] And I think all of us have become more structured, more disciplined. I would say. That is obviously the silver lining that I would say and the empathy within us you know, we have become more empathetic towards our own people. It is genuinely adversity, and we all need to be together in this. So, that has also grown so far that I have been some of the learning I would say or something on the silver lining side of it.

Ketan [00:21:55] Fantastic. In fact, I top up on two of the things. I can't stop adding a point of view. There's one on the engagement levels. And then you said the connection had become better. So we also did a quick survey. If you do, these pulse surveys to check on how people are feeling. And there's something called eNPS that we measure. And we suddenly saw that doing lockdown it shot up. I was very happy. I said. Great. But when I started speaking to peers and people in the league in this area, I think this was happening all across to you right now. I think people's gossip and politics have reduced. People have started focusing on the right things, either in life or the work part. But the small and insignificant things in the point of complaints, they were out of the window. And, of course, a larger battle that the human race was facing actually made people stand together and stronger saying, hey, how can I contribute to the entire thing? So that was fascinating.

Second very powerful thing that you talked about. Me as a coach, I think I need to add something that is about empathy. Now, what is the reason why this is shot up is because we have started realizing the value of things around us.  Also being at home, you started out having empathy and shot up with regards to the household work, the stuff that it takes to run the house, the stuff that it takes people to run their houses, and how kids suddenly pop up into a meeting and switch. I think the cause, we've become more human. Every single one of us. And that actually has multiplied. And just I think the kind of empathy's definitely out there that an organization would be the best to take care of people in these times of whatever they could do. Thank you so much for sharing those points. And it resonates a lot with what you've been experiencing. Well, wonderful.

Senthil [00:23:57] To add another point here. Right. So there was another webinar by some B2B companies in Chennai. Kissflow, Chargebee, and Freshworks founders were talking about the situation. They unanimously agreed that they expected 20 percent, they were ready to let go of 20 percent of productivity, but then 20 percent of productivity got increased. So that's something that they observed. And, Freshworks founder also started this webinar by saying to support what Pawan said as an answer to the first question. Hey, we used to work from 13 offices. Now we work from 3000 offices. So. Right. So that's something a lot of new things and new unforeseen goodness is also coming out of this. So. Yeah. I just like to add that.

Ketan [00:24:56] Plus respects somebody like Girish from Freshworks, I think he's led from the front a lot and when it comes to people decisions. So, yep, this coming from somebody like him could even be very interesting. But we're glad that you had it.

Ketan [00:25:15] So Pawan what do you think this entire situation, this change, this remote working, this e-culture, the world going virtual. What challenges or opportunities? What does it mean for the HR fraternity for today as we speak and maybe for the future? Where does it lead? But what do you think that's going to be the new trend? What's going to be the impact of this entire function? What's your point of view on that?

Dr. Pawan [00:25:42] I'll share a couple of points Ketan that I discussed. So I was having a conversation with one of our mentors and we were discussing if we need HR functions. And we do need a recruitment team, for example, why can't managers hire on their own? Why don't they refer to their network and get people on board? Why do we need our dedicated HR team and our dedicated recruitment team, for example? So hope that conversation also got me thinking. And. The challenges ahead as what's the current situation is, everything now because we are remote. The joinings, inductions, and training now become the remote majority of them. And. Having complete control or having some satisfaction that the job has been done well, it's been, I think, of a challenge because you still don't know what to do. If we talk about training, for example. It's told. You're really unsure, right. But if the recipient has intended to give the cause in a classroom setting, you have their faces around, you can see how people behave or their body language. training them is going to be a challenge doing most of the sessions online. I think they need to have the boardroom sessions also, but that will take some time.

Dr. Pawan [00:27:33] Secondly, I also believe, the answer to the questions again, HR., you know, I have to start playing. a little more proactive of business support roles, say, HR no longer is just an HR. It will be a techno behavioral business role. OK, by what I mean as a techno behavioral business role is.  One is an HR has to be technically or technologically savvy, which means or whatever. Tools or platforms available which could empower them and help them facilitate things at their organization. OK, second, behavioral, because they will have to understand employees from remote locations or talking to them remotely. OK, so HR will have to get the minute nuances of all employees doing this.

Dr. Pawan [00:28:31] This is the context that is set on call. Or maybe. a Zoom or Skype call. Don't meet in person. OK. Think about interviews. Get in. They are interviewing a person. And it is very different. I'm sure you would agree. Meeting a person, you know, personally, having a face to face vs having a virtual interview. This will be a great challenge. So behavioral up front, even on the employee engagement upfront, we are doing a lot of activities. But whether that engagement level has gone up? And. Whether there is a true hit to the right quarterback is trying to have it in the employ as that happened or not.

That will be difficult to measure online or, you know, remotely. And that is where HR will need to be very good at understanding those very fine nuances of behavior. And as I said, innovating the business side, HR obviously needs to play an HR business partner role. Keep saying that. But here's what we're saying is, you know, you have one leg towards employees and others in the business and you have to balance both of these. And post this, HR will have to play that role. We'll have to look at ways of technologically enabling people, technologically engaging people, technologically, ensuring that you know, people are productive. And even the cultural aspects of it can get off. So those are some of the challenges that I see.

Dr. Pawan [00:30:21] The HR fraternity is very common or, you know, the generalist kind of role, I think in the long run. Be kind of boring. They can see new norms even for HR fraternity coming over in generalist kinds of things, you know, with the filling up forms or.

Ketan [00:30:42] Senthil, please get us a job.

Senthil [00:30:45] No, I was just going to point out Ketan, you know, since the day I met Ketan getting it's always mentioned this aspect of HR, that technology and HR riding together like that is going to be the future. But those are the times that I like. We didn't realize the seriousness of lockdown. Now lockdown has catalyzed, knowing from what you're seeing, I can understand that HR should immediately jump and. Yeah. Yeah. And I'd be glad as a HR tech, we're glad that this is and we have some phenomenal technology ability in place, which would be we'd be able to exploit and make it propose a value to all the companies. Yes. Yes.

Dr. Pawan [00:31:36] The role of HR will definitely evolve, I would say. And, you know earlier it used to be if you're at the office and your people around, you get the pulse of the organization. But here, how do I get the pulse of the organization? You are not in office. And you are all remote. Right. So how do you get there? How do you get the real pulse of the organization? For that, I think the role of HR is pivotal, but at the same time, it will evolve. And as I said, you know, although the regular activities will go away and a lot of automation, more my migration will happen. By playing this role of these true business partner as well as true to employ capital through technology. So, yes, Ketan, I think, you know, every new era that has been created has also been because of these, you know, phenomenal changes that we see around. And most probably typical HR jobs will go out, to be very honest.

Ketan [00:32:58] Sure. Yeah, I think we have been functioning very late in adopting the technology. This is a movement. This is the opportunity. And as Dr. Pawan said, this is time to seize. If you are not using technology, If you're not digitally transforming, you may be late in this journey. So thank you that that was really powerful.

Ketan [00:33:25] Do you believe that e-culture is the future as we speak?

Dr. Pawan [00:33:32] E-culture is definitely the future to be very honest. It is going to be the future because we will have to deal with employees electronically, digitally, remotely. And it is going to be the norm, you know, the mindset of people has changed completely towards the office, towards the physical infrastructure of our office. And there are several organizations which we've been seeing, wherein, you know, they have allowed the employees to work, the entire year from home. And some organizations have taken a stand of it.

And, you know, by 2025, they will have only 10 percent or 25 percent of their employee base just working for an office. The rest of them also will work from home. And I know you companies who have zero employees working in an office Right. So fourteen, fifteen hundred base employees working all remotely. So how do you ensure you know that of those the value system, those nuances, you know, get related to the grassroots level.

It is only going to be the medium of e-culture to the level of say is going to be the norm of the future. And. But through different media sharing media, it could be different you know, banners messaging, e-mail works would be for a purpose. Yes, e-culture in my view It's going to be good news for you Senthil.

Senthil [00:35:22] Yes. Yes. That's right. And they also see this also there is a lot of things that we can learn from a lot of lessons that we can learn from companies who have been 100 percent remote even before COVID right. Because I am largely from technology. I'm an engineer for more than 10 years. So we have been following a lot of these tech companies, tech studios like GitLab, like Buffer, like the Basecamp. These companies globally, have global people from different countries and fully remote even before they've had this vision and now they're there. They're very proud. They're like, listen, we are the leaders we already knew. Right. So, as you said. Yes.

Senthil [00:36:12] And we are also seeing a lot of traction for such a market immediately increased in the last one and a half months that people well, you know, everyone wants whether what was a bit hesitant about using an engagement platform now they really wanted. So it's an indication that E- culture, Ketan to it's going to be the first thing, one of the needs, not even want. It's the need for every company to do that is.

Dr. Pawan [00:36:40] I completely agree.

Ketan [00:36:46] Good. That was wonderful. I'll come for some interesting ones. Now Pawan. Hope you're ready for this one. OK. You would have to answer it. Try to answer that in one single word. And we've tried to move fast on this one. So here's question number one.

Ketan [00:37:03] If it was not an HR, what would you have become? What profession?

Dr. Pawan [00:37:09] Lecturer.

Senthil [00:37:10] I think I knew it. Thank you.

Ketan [00:37:15] Second, favorite holiday destination pre- COVID?

Dr. Pawan [00:37:21] Mauritius

Ketan [00:37:22] OK, third question, favorite holiday destination post- COVID?

Dr. Pawan [00:37:28] Mars.

Senthil [00:37:32] Hahahaha, Yes

Ketan [00:37:34] All right. So this one's going to be even more interesting. Cooking, cleaning, mopping during COVID. Which one was easiest?

Dr. Pawan [00:37:47] Cooking, cleaning, and mopping, Hmmm, I would say making the bed for me was easier.

Ketan [00:37:59] And one thing you would personally want to thank COVID for?

Dr. Pawan [00:38:10] Instilling that, you know, humanity or the sense of humanness within us, those have brought in humility.

Ketan [00:38:19] Great, great. Yes. Thank you. So that's it. Thank you so much, Dr. Pawan. Guys, that was Dr. Pawan for us. It was an amazing conversation I met. In fact, in March 2020 I was supposed to go to Noida to meet him. But the COVID thing happened. Then everything went through the doors and then we were remotely connected. Plus, we were focused on helping out the business to get to the new normal. And thank you so much Pawan. It was a lot that I've learned today from an HR perspective, I think, because you have to look at the culture, a lot of things that you did. Communication, digital, and, of course, your favorite destination being MARS. I think this would be interesting that I picked up, but it was phenomenal.

Senthil, Thank you so much for organizing this. Dr. Pawan, thank you so much for your time. I'm sure this is going to help a lot of people in the HR fraternity and otherwise, learn, understand, and think it's HR's time to get to the new normal.

Dr. Pawan [00:39:24] Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Senthil [00:39:27] Yes. Yes. I think the points, to be very honest, Dr.Pawan Very, very honest. I don't know if you believe this. We have been talking to many HRs, but about some of the points, you know, five to six even. I was noting down some six, seven points that you talked about today. It's been really new. It's a very new perspective, you started out by saying the virtual element is taken off the visual element. Of course, it's taken off, which is something it's very, very the first thing I'm getting. So, of course, the whole recording, the whole session was full of value.

So, yeah. So we can. This is the end of this episode. And you guys can ask a lot of questions offline and maybe through email. We can get Dr. Pawan to answer those questions. You know, if you're okay with that. So thanks a lot. And yep. So there's more that's coming in Culture club. So maybe the more we talk to people, the more value that we get out of it. And we all put it in the club. And it's also the club is going to be virtual right. So it's an e-club. So that's coming soon. So cool. Thanks a lot for your time and. Yeah. Have a great weekend ahead of you.

Dr. Pawan [00:40:45] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was a fun time.